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Mike Oxsaw
2:33 Mon Sep 24
Re: Is capital punishment an effective deterrent to murder in the usa
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cornish 2:25 Mon Sep 24
So, if it's just the cost, simply chase down the relatives of the convicted to recover the money needed. Go up and down the family tree as often as needed.
YOUR fault entirely if it turns out you're a (distant) relative of a convict serving a life sentence.
Fair, no?
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cornish
2:25 Mon Sep 24
Re: Is capital punishment an effective deterrent to murder in the usa
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It is justice people who deserve the ultimate penalty don't deserve to live amongst decent people even in prison which costs us money.
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Bungo
2:12 Mon Sep 24
Re: Is capital punishment an effective deterrent to murder in the usa
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Westside 11:12 Mon Sep 24
In the context of this thread about the death penalty in the USA, beyond the US legal system, the State Governor has the ultimate decision on whether to grant a stay of execution or not. A direct yes or no on whether somebody is to live or not.
I understand these decisions are heavily influenced by their view of how their decision will sit with the voters that elected them.
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Spandex Sidney
1:23 Mon Sep 24
Re: Is capital punishment an effective deterrent to murder in the usa
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The last death sentence handed out on the Isle of Man was in 1992 as it's not part of the United Kingdom and didn't abolish it when the UK did in 1965, as an aside.
However since 1965 the UK Home Secretary has told them to fuck off and commuted them.
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Spandex Sidney
1:16 Mon Sep 24
Re: Is capital punishment an effective deterrent to murder in the usa
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You lock them up forwever, they don't kill anyone else so sorted, as been said.
The small chance you execute an innocent person is why you don't have a death penalty. Plus I haven't seen that countries with capital punishment have lower murder rates so clearly don;t work.
When I was younger you still heard politico types banging on about it, mainly tories. But now you don't, not even from the tory hard right. I guess the world has moved on and so it fucking should, people can be barbaric and vengeful but democratic states shouldn't
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Westside
11:54 Mon Sep 24
Re: Is capital punishment an effective deterrent to murder in the usa
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One thing about capital punishment is that the recidivism rate is zero. How many times do we read about people repeat offending when they get out on parole.
Not that often. 5 this century.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2421724/Revealed-The-murderers-given-life-jail-freed-kill-again.html
5 too many of course. Easily avoided by not releasing convicted murderers.
So Joe, do you think it's worth executing the innocent, to prevent murderers re offending?
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Far Cough
11:20 Mon Sep 24
Re: Is capital punishment an effective deterrent to murder in the usa
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Death penalty in the UK was abolished largely due to the wrongful execution of Timothy Evans, the film 10 Rillington Place, which by the way is an excellent portrayal of said events, makes this point very clear
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zico
11:13 Mon Sep 24
Re: Is capital punishment an effective deterrent to murder in the usa
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Agree with the below with regard to mistakes being made and innocent people being put to death, it's happened and will happen again.
I also watched that "Life on Death Row" series and what a lot of people forget is that no matter what crime has been committed these criminals have families as well. Mothers, fathers, wives and children who are all affected by their son, father, husband, mother, daughter or wife being out to death by the state.
At the very least it creates immense grief for another family and at it's worst I guess could create yet another criminal if a son or daughter were to grow up harbouring angst against a state that had put their mother or father to death.
It was also interesting that a large number of the victims families didn't agree with the death penalty either feeling it to be cruel or they felt that life in prison without parole was a harsher penalty, however many still wanted that revenge, although after the event they felt it hadn't actually helped much.
Difficult one if you are involved in someway, not sure how I'd feel if someone had murdered one of my family.
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Westside
11:12 Mon Sep 24
Re: Is capital punishment an effective deterrent to murder in the usa
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Bungo, although ultimately in the UK the home secretary signed off on an execution, it was a jury who made the conviction and a judge who passed sentence, so not a great deal of political involvement.
The home secretary would virtually always follow guidance of the judge and jury. Any recommendation for clemency from either, was pretty much followed.
As post war reprieve rates in the UK, of nearly 50% for men and over 90% for women, indicated.
If you are referring to the legal process of restoring capital punishment, then this is a legal process. If you look at the amount of members of the armed forces who have died, at the direction of politicians in un necessary wars (I'm looking at you Blair), then you are right not to trust politicians, to make correct life and death decisions.
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Bungo
10:59 Mon Sep 24
Re: Is capital punishment an effective deterrent to murder in the usa
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Westside 10:55 Mon Sep 24
Another point which I think goes alongside your post is this.
People who are in favour of capital punishment seem to place an awful lot of faith in the honesty of their politicians, and their ability to make correct decisions all the time based on the evidence available. Most people are very quick to criticize political leaders for almost all their other actions all the rest of the time.
Would you be happy that your life could be directly in their hands?
Would you also be happy that all politicians would always make the ‘right’ decision, and never base their decision on how that decision might affect their ongoing popularity with the electorate?
Not sure that I would...
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Westside
10:55 Mon Sep 24
Re: Is capital punishment an effective deterrent to murder in the usa
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As Debs alluded to, murder rates in the USA are generally lower, in states without the death penalty, than those with it.
As "hanging" Judge Parker said, its the certainty of punishment that deters, not the severity.
To those who favour the death penalty, are you prepared for yourself, or a loved one to be incorrectly executed, for the benefits of capital punishment? It happened before, would happen again.
Awaits reply saying only execute the clearly guilty and wonders what the Guildford 4, Birmingham 6, Barry George etc would say about that.
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Bungo
9:59 Mon Sep 24
Re: Is capital punishment an effective deterrent to murder in the usa
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BRANDED 12:38 Mon Sep 24
"Many are just stupid or do it in the heat of the moment or hate a certain kind of people".
There is a lot of truth in this. I understand that a lot of people convicted of capital murder in the States, have little or no previous criminal record, but kill 'in the heat of the moment', and therefore are not really thinking about the potential consequences.
The widespread availability of guns feeds this too. Have read of many cases where a minor disagreement has escalated, and because somebody has a gun on them, someone ends up getting shot and killed, a situation that is much less likely to happen where people have less access to guns.
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joe blob
3:57 Mon Sep 24
Re: Is capital punishment an effective deterrent to murder in the usa
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One thing about capital punishment is that the recidivism rate is zero. How many times do we read about people repeat offending when they get out on parole.
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Ronald_antly
1:40 Mon Sep 24
Re: Is capital punishment an effective deterrent to murder in the usa
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It's a very effective punishment.
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gank
1:36 Mon Sep 24
Re: Is capital punishment an effective deterrent to murder in the usa
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Son of Sam, are you a teacher? If so, I'd like to be the first to say:
"Yeah, I always thought he was the sort that shouldn't be allowed near kids"
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wanstead_hammer
12:49 Mon Sep 24
Re: Is capital punishment an effective deterrent to murder in the usa
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No, but it might help in Walthamstow, camberwell, Brent, Southwark, Newham......etc etc
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geoffpikey
12:48 Mon Sep 24
Re: Is capital punishment an effective deterrent to murder in the usa
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People who murder undertaking some sort of cost-benefit analysis. Hmm, I wonder.
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Jose+
12:48 Mon Sep 24
Re: Is capital punishment an effective deterrent to murder in the usa
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People who commit crime focus on how they are going to get away with it, not what will happen if they're caught.
Deterrent works on the normals.....so therefore the risk of imprisonment is sufficient.
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NewtonsPartyBag
12:46 Mon Sep 24
Re: Is capital punishment an effective deterrent to murder in the usa
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Id be a fucking great teacher.
That is all......
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ManorParkHammer
12:42 Mon Sep 24
Re: Is capital punishment an effective deterrent to murder in the usa
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'A student'
Jesus. Please, please, please tell me there are no WHOERS working in education?
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
12:38 Mon Sep 24
Re: Is capital punishment an effective deterrent to murder in the usa
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It's definitely a deterrent to re-offence.
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